[CCCure CISSP] Best effort protocol question

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[CCCure CISSP] Best effort protocol question

nrasool
I had the following question from Shon Harris.  Can anyone confirm the correct answer?

Which of the following is a "best effort" protocol requiring fewer resources than other protocols?

A)  IP
B)  UDP
C)  TCP
D)  ARP

I had put A) IP however the answer from the Shon Harris total tester is UDP?  Do you agree?

--
Nabil Rasool

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Re: [CCCure CISSP] Best effort protocol question

clementdupuis
Administrator
Good evening Nabil,

It is UDP for sure,  no doubt.

UDP is also knows as a best effort protocol,  the biggest advantage of UDP is speed.  The packet header format is a lot smaller than the 20 bytes header of TCP.

Best regards

Clement


Clement Dupuis, CD

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GCFW, GCIA, Security+ 301, CEH V7, CCSA, CCSE,  + 12 others

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On Sun, Mar 16, 2014 at 11:21 PM, Nabil Rasool <[hidden email]> wrote:
I had the following question from Shon Harris.  Can anyone confirm the correct answer?

Which of the following is a "best effort" protocol requiring fewer resources than other protocols?

A)  IP
B)  UDP
C)  TCP
D)  ARP

I had put A) IP however the answer from the Shon Harris total tester is UDP?  Do you agree?

--
Nabil Rasool

_______________________________________________
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http://cissp-study.3965.n7.nabble.com/

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Re: [CCCure CISSP] Best effort protocol question

nrasool
Thanks for the quick response Clem.  Have a great night!

Nabil


On Sun, Mar 16, 2014 at 11:27 PM, Clement Dupuis <[hidden email]> wrote:
Good evening Nabil,

It is UDP for sure,  no doubt.

UDP is also knows as a best effort protocol,  the biggest advantage of UDP is speed.  The packet header format is a lot smaller than the 20 bytes header of TCP.

Best regards

Clement


Clement Dupuis, CD

Chief Learning Officer (CLO) and Security Evangelist
GCFW, GCIA, Security+ 301, CEH V7, CCSA, CCSE,  + 12 others

SecureNinja
Office : +<a href="tel:703%20535%208600" value="+17035358600" target="_blank">703 535 8600
Mobile: <a href="tel:%2B1%20407%20433%206444" value="+14074336444" target="_blank">+1 407 433 6444

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The CCCure Family of Portals
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Knowledge sharing and giving back to the community

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>  Call me to get the best CISSP, Security+, or other Security related training  <<
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


On Sun, Mar 16, 2014 at 11:21 PM, Nabil Rasool <[hidden email]> wrote:
I had the following question from Shon Harris.  Can anyone confirm the correct answer?

Which of the following is a "best effort" protocol requiring fewer resources than other protocols?

A)  IP
B)  UDP
C)  TCP
D)  ARP

I had put A) IP however the answer from the Shon Harris total tester is UDP?  Do you agree?

--
Nabil Rasool

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http://cissp-study.3965.n7.nabble.com/

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--
Nabil Rasool

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Re: [CCCure CISSP] Best effort protocol question

Marouane
In reply to this post by nrasool
To my understanding, A) IP would be correct if the question asked something like which one of the following provides a best-effort delivery service for packets. Hence, B) UDP is the final answer as Clement had confirmed

Marouane



On Sun, Mar 16, 2014 at 11:21 PM, Nabil Rasool <[hidden email]> wrote:
I had the following question from Shon Harris.  Can anyone confirm the correct answer?

Which of the following is a "best effort" protocol requiring fewer resources than other protocols?

A)  IP
B)  UDP
C)  TCP
D)  ARP

I had put A) IP however the answer from the Shon Harris total tester is UDP?  Do you agree?

--
Nabil Rasool

_______________________________________________
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http://cissp-study.3965.n7.nabble.com/

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Re: [CCCure CISSP] Best effort protocol question

Eoin Ryan
In reply to this post by clementdupuis
Hi Clement

I would also agree that it is UDP and that is what I would have chosen in an exam.

However I'm interested in your thoughts re ARP as an answer. It is a protocol. The question does not specify the protocol needs to carry user payload. So consider a Gratuitous ARP - it is extremely small, does not require a response at all and it operates at the link layer rather than transport layer (uses fewer resources?). 

I would still choose UDP, but I'm trying to tease out why not ARP.

Regards,
Eoin

On Monday, March 17, 2014, Clement Dupuis <[hidden email]> wrote:
Good evening Nabil,

It is UDP for sure,  no doubt.

UDP is also knows as a best effort protocol,  the biggest advantage of UDP is speed.  The packet header format is a lot smaller than the 20 bytes header of TCP.

Best regards

Clement


Clement Dupuis, CD

Chief Learning Officer (CLO) and Security Evangelist
GCFW, GCIA, Security+ 301, CEH V7, CCSA, CCSE,  + 12 others

SecureNinja
Office : +703 535 8600
Mobile: +1 407 433 6444

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----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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https://www.freepracticetests.org/quiz/index.php?page=home

The CCCure Family of Portals
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Knowledge sharing and giving back to the community

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>  Call me to get the best CISSP, Security+, or other Security related training  <<
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


On Sun, Mar 16, 2014 at 11:21 PM, Nabil Rasool <<a href="javascript:_e(%7B%7D,&#39;cvml&#39;,&#39;nrasool@gmail.com&#39;);" target="_blank">nrasool@...> wrote:
I had the following question from Shon Harris.  Can anyone confirm the correct answer?

Which of the following is a "best effort" protocol requiring fewer resources than other protocols?

A)  IP
B)  UDP
C)  TCP
D)  ARP

I had put A) IP however the answer from the Shon Harris total tester is UDP?  Do you agree?

--
Nabil Rasool

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You can find the list archive at:
http://cissp-study.3965.n7.nabble.com/

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Re: [CCCure CISSP] Best effort protocol question

clementdupuis
Administrator
Good day Eoin,

Great thinking!

I would agree with you, considering it did not mention any other requirements, you are right it could be ARP as well.

The only thing that is giving it away is the term "Best effort",  I have never seen ARP being referred to as Best Effort.

Great thinking regardless.

An experience person can guess which one they are referring to, but a junior person in networking may have a hard time.

I agree the questions could be a bit more specific.

Best regards

Clement


Clement Dupuis, CD

Chief Learning Officer (CLO) and Security Evangelist
GCFW, GCIA, Security+ 301, CEH V7, CCSA, CCSE,  + 12 others

SecureNinja
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President/Founder/Chief Security Evangelist
The CCCure Family of Portals
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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The CCCure Quiz Engine
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Knowledge sharing and giving back to the community

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>>  Call me to get the best CISSP, Security+, or other Security related training  <<
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


On Mon, Mar 17, 2014 at 3:46 AM, Eoin Ryan <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi Clement

I would also agree that it is UDP and that is what I would have chosen in an exam.

However I'm interested in your thoughts re ARP as an answer. It is a protocol. The question does not specify the protocol needs to carry user payload. So consider a Gratuitous ARP - it is extremely small, does not require a response at all and it operates at the link layer rather than transport layer (uses fewer resources?). 

I would still choose UDP, but I'm trying to tease out why not ARP.

Regards,
Eoin


On Monday, March 17, 2014, Clement Dupuis <[hidden email]> wrote:
Good evening Nabil,

It is UDP for sure,  no doubt.

UDP is also knows as a best effort protocol,  the biggest advantage of UDP is speed.  The packet header format is a lot smaller than the 20 bytes header of TCP.

Best regards

Clement


Clement Dupuis, CD

Chief Learning Officer (CLO) and Security Evangelist
GCFW, GCIA, Security+ 301, CEH V7, CCSA, CCSE,  + 12 others

SecureNinja
Office : +<a href="tel:703%20535%208600" value="+17035358600" target="_blank">703 535 8600
Mobile: <a href="tel:%2B1%20407%20433%206444" value="+14074336444" target="_blank">+1 407 433 6444

Email: [hidden email]

Web: www.secureninja.com

Connect with me on LinkedIn | Follow me on Twitter


Description: Secure Ninja @ LinkedinDescription: See Us @ YoutubeDescription: Like us on FacebookDescription: Fallow us Twitter

901 N. Pitt Street, Suite 105
Alexandria, VA  22314

Description: Description: sn_logo

In Cyberspace:

[hidden email]
Clement Dupuis, CD
President/Founder/Chief Security Evangelist
The CCCure Family of Portals
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Maintainer of :

The CCCure Quiz Engine
https://www.freepracticetests.org/quiz/index.php?page=home

The CCCure Family of Portals
http://www.cccure.org

The Professional Security Testers Warehouse
http://www.professionalsecuritytesters.org/

Knowledge sharing and giving back to the community

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>  Call me to get the best CISSP, Security+, or other Security related training  <<
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


On Sun, Mar 16, 2014 at 11:21 PM, Nabil Rasool <[hidden email]> wrote:
I had the following question from Shon Harris.  Can anyone confirm the correct answer?

Which of the following is a "best effort" protocol requiring fewer resources than other protocols?

A)  IP
B)  UDP
C)  TCP
D)  ARP

I had put A) IP however the answer from the Shon Harris total tester is UDP?  Do you agree?

--
Nabil Rasool

_______________________________________________
You can find the list archive at:
http://cissp-study.3965.n7.nabble.com/

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Re: [CCCure CISSP] Best effort protocol question

Eoin Ryan
Apologies to all,

I was getting too technical in posing my query re ARP to Clement on this forum.

The answer is indeed UDP and I think the wording of the question is fine.  As Clement rightly says, the key is in understanding the context in which the term "best effort" is used in the networking literature.  

Regards,
Eoin


On 17 March 2014 22:12, Clement Dupuis <[hidden email]> wrote:
Good day Eoin,

Great thinking!

I would agree with you, considering it did not mention any other requirements, you are right it could be ARP as well.

The only thing that is giving it away is the term "Best effort",  I have never seen ARP being referred to as Best Effort.

Great thinking regardless.

An experience person can guess which one they are referring to, but a junior person in networking may have a hard time.

I agree the questions could be a bit more specific.

Best regards

Clement


Clement Dupuis, CD

Chief Learning Officer (CLO) and Security Evangelist
GCFW, GCIA, Security+ 301, CEH V7, CCSA, CCSE,  + 12 others

SecureNinja
Office : +703 535 8600
Mobile: +1 407 433 6444

Email: [hidden email]

Web: www.secureninja.com

Connect with me on LinkedIn | Follow me on Twitter


Description: Secure Ninja @ LinkedinDescription: See Us @ YoutubeDescription: Like us on FacebookDescription: Fallow us Twitter

901 N. Pitt Street, Suite 105
Alexandria, VA  22314

Description: Description: sn_logo

In Cyberspace:

[hidden email]
Clement Dupuis, CD
President/Founder/Chief Security Evangelist
The CCCure Family of Portals
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Maintainer of :

The CCCure Quiz Engine
https://www.freepracticetests.org/quiz/index.php?page=home

The CCCure Family of Portals
http://www.cccure.org

The Professional Security Testers Warehouse
http://www.professionalsecuritytesters.org/

Knowledge sharing and giving back to the community

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>  Call me to get the best CISSP, Security+, or other Security related training  <<
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


On Mon, Mar 17, 2014 at 3:46 AM, Eoin Ryan <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi Clement

I would also agree that it is UDP and that is what I would have chosen in an exam.

However I'm interested in your thoughts re ARP as an answer. It is a protocol. The question does not specify the protocol needs to carry user payload. So consider a Gratuitous ARP - it is extremely small, does not require a response at all and it operates at the link layer rather than transport layer (uses fewer resources?). 

I would still choose UDP, but I'm trying to tease out why not ARP.

Regards,
Eoin


On Monday, March 17, 2014, Clement Dupuis <[hidden email]> wrote:
Good evening Nabil,

It is UDP for sure,  no doubt.

UDP is also knows as a best effort protocol,  the biggest advantage of UDP is speed.  The packet header format is a lot smaller than the 20 bytes header of TCP.

Best regards

Clement


Clement Dupuis, CD

Chief Learning Officer (CLO) and Security Evangelist
GCFW, GCIA, Security+ 301, CEH V7, CCSA, CCSE,  + 12 others

SecureNinja
Office : +<a href="tel:703%20535%208600" value="+17035358600" target="_blank">703 535 8600
Mobile: <a href="tel:%2B1%20407%20433%206444" value="+14074336444" target="_blank">+1 407 433 6444

Email: [hidden email]

Web: www.secureninja.com

Connect with me on LinkedIn | Follow me on Twitter


Description: Secure Ninja @ LinkedinDescription: See Us @ YoutubeDescription: Like us on FacebookDescription: Fallow us Twitter

901 N. Pitt Street, Suite 105
Alexandria, VA  22314

Description: Description: sn_logo

In Cyberspace:

[hidden email]
Clement Dupuis, CD
President/Founder/Chief Security Evangelist
The CCCure Family of Portals
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Maintainer of :

The CCCure Quiz Engine
https://www.freepracticetests.org/quiz/index.php?page=home

The CCCure Family of Portals
http://www.cccure.org

The Professional Security Testers Warehouse
http://www.professionalsecuritytesters.org/

Knowledge sharing and giving back to the community

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>  Call me to get the best CISSP, Security+, or other Security related training  <<
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


On Sun, Mar 16, 2014 at 11:21 PM, Nabil Rasool <[hidden email]> wrote:
I had the following question from Shon Harris.  Can anyone confirm the correct answer?

Which of the following is a "best effort" protocol requiring fewer resources than other protocols?

A)  IP
B)  UDP
C)  TCP
D)  ARP

I had put A) IP however the answer from the Shon Harris total tester is UDP?  Do you agree?

--
Nabil Rasool

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Re: [CCCure CISSP] Best effort protocol question

Doug Spindler
In reply to this post by clementdupuis

I completely disagree with you, the correct answer is IP.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_Protocol

As a consequence of this design, the Internet Protocol only provides best effort delivery and its service is characterized as unreliable

 

I would say the more you learn about the topics covered on the CISSP exam the more difficult it becomes.  The folks who created the exam has specific predetermined answers which in many cases are dated answers.  The only way to get the “right” answer is which in a work place would be wrong.  In my opinion that’s why this is a difficult exam.

 

 

 

 

From: CISSPstudy [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Clement Dupuis
Sent: Monday, March 17, 2014 8:13 AM
To: The CISSP Study Mailing list
Subject: Re: [CCCure CISSP] Best effort protocol question

 

Good day Eoin,

Great thinking!

I would agree with you, considering it did not mention any other requirements, you are right it could be ARP as well.

The only thing that is giving it away is the term "Best effort",  I have never seen ARP being referred to as Best Effort.

Great thinking regardless.

An experience person can guess which one they are referring to, but a junior person in networking may have a hard time.

I agree the questions could be a bit more specific.

Best regards

Clement


Clement Dupuis, CD

Chief Learning Officer (CLO) and Security Evangelist
GCFW, GCIA, Security+ 301, CEH V7, CCSA, CCSE,  + 12 others

SecureNinja
Office : +703 535 8600
Mobile: +1 407 433 6444

Email: [hidden email]

Web: www.secureninja.com

Connect with me on LinkedIn | Follow me on Twitter


Description: Secure Ninja @ LinkedinDescription: See Us @ YoutubeDescription: Like us on FacebookDescription: Fallow us Twitter

901 N. Pitt Street, Suite 105
Alexandria, VA  22314

Description: Description: sn_logo

In Cyberspace:

[hidden email]
Clement Dupuis, CD
President/Founder/Chief Security Evangelist
The CCCure Family of Portals
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Maintainer of :

The CCCure Quiz Engine
https://www.freepracticetests.org/quiz/index.php?page=home

The CCCure Family of Portals
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The Professional Security Testers Warehouse
http://www.professionalsecuritytesters.org/

Knowledge sharing and giving back to the community

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>  Call me to get the best CISSP, Security+, or other Security related training  <<
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

On Mon, Mar 17, 2014 at 3:46 AM, Eoin Ryan <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi Clement

 

I would also agree that it is UDP and that is what I would have chosen in an exam.

 

However I'm interested in your thoughts re ARP as an answer. It is a protocol. The question does not specify the protocol needs to carry user payload. So consider a Gratuitous ARP - it is extremely small, does not require a response at all and it operates at the link layer rather than transport layer (uses fewer resources?). 

 

I would still choose UDP, but I'm trying to tease out why not ARP.

 

Regards,

Eoin



On Monday, March 17, 2014, Clement Dupuis <[hidden email]> wrote:

Good evening Nabil,

It is UDP for sure,  no doubt.

UDP is also knows as a best effort protocol,  the biggest advantage of UDP is speed.  The packet header format is a lot smaller than the 20 bytes header of TCP.

Best regards

Clement


Clement Dupuis, CD

Chief Learning Officer (CLO) and Security Evangelist
GCFW, GCIA, Security+ 301, CEH V7, CCSA, CCSE,  + 12 others

SecureNinja
Office : +<a href="tel:703%20535%208600" target="_blank">703 535 8600
Mobile: <a href="tel:%2B1%20407%20433%206444" target="_blank">+1 407 433 6444

Email: [hidden email]

Web: www.secureninja.com

Connect with me on LinkedIn | Follow me on Twitter


Description: Secure Ninja @ LinkedinDescription: See Us @ YoutubeDescription: Like us on FacebookDescription: Fallow us Twitter

901 N. Pitt Street, Suite 105
Alexandria, VA  22314

Description: Description: sn_logo

In Cyberspace:

[hidden email]
Clement Dupuis, CD
President/Founder/Chief Security Evangelist
The CCCure Family of Portals
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Maintainer of :

The CCCure Quiz Engine
https://www.freepracticetests.org/quiz/index.php?page=home

The CCCure Family of Portals
http://www.cccure.org

The Professional Security Testers Warehouse
http://www.professionalsecuritytesters.org/

Knowledge sharing and giving back to the community

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>  Call me to get the best CISSP, Security+, or other Security related training  <<
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

On Sun, Mar 16, 2014 at 11:21 PM, Nabil Rasool <[hidden email]> wrote:

I had the following question from Shon Harris.  Can anyone confirm the correct answer?

 

Which of the following is a "best effort" protocol requiring fewer resources than other protocols?

 

A)  IP

B)  UDP

C)  TCP

D)  ARP

 

I had put A) IP however the answer from the Shon Harris total tester is UDP?  Do you agree?

 

--
Nabil Rasool


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Re: [CCCure CISSP] Best effort protocol question

BobbyJoe
In reply to this post by clementdupuis

This is why we are asked not to think too deep. A network engineer would have issues thinking out this question. Better keep it simple. One inch please.

Bobby

On Mar 17, 2014 6:14 PM, "Clement Dupuis" <[hidden email]> wrote:
Good day Eoin,

Great thinking!

I would agree with you, considering it did not mention any other requirements, you are right it could be ARP as well.

The only thing that is giving it away is the term "Best effort",  I have never seen ARP being referred to as Best Effort.

Great thinking regardless.

An experience person can guess which one they are referring to, but a junior person in networking may have a hard time.

I agree the questions could be a bit more specific.

Best regards

Clement


Clement Dupuis, CD

Chief Learning Officer (CLO) and Security Evangelist
GCFW, GCIA, Security+ 301, CEH V7, CCSA, CCSE,  + 12 others

SecureNinja
Office : +703 535 8600
Mobile: <a href="tel:%2B1%20407%20433%206444" value="+14074336444" target="_blank">+1 407 433 6444

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Description: Description: sn_logo

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Clement Dupuis, CD
President/Founder/Chief Security Evangelist
The CCCure Family of Portals
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Maintainer of :

The CCCure Quiz Engine
https://www.freepracticetests.org/quiz/index.php?page=home

The CCCure Family of Portals
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The Professional Security Testers Warehouse
http://www.professionalsecuritytesters.org/

Knowledge sharing and giving back to the community

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>  Call me to get the best CISSP, Security+, or other Security related training  <<
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


On Mon, Mar 17, 2014 at 3:46 AM, Eoin Ryan <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi Clement

I would also agree that it is UDP and that is what I would have chosen in an exam.

However I'm interested in your thoughts re ARP as an answer. It is a protocol. The question does not specify the protocol needs to carry user payload. So consider a Gratuitous ARP - it is extremely small, does not require a response at all and it operates at the link layer rather than transport layer (uses fewer resources?). 

I would still choose UDP, but I'm trying to tease out why not ARP.

Regards,
Eoin


On Monday, March 17, 2014, Clement Dupuis <[hidden email]> wrote:
Good evening Nabil,

It is UDP for sure,  no doubt.

UDP is also knows as a best effort protocol,  the biggest advantage of UDP is speed.  The packet header format is a lot smaller than the 20 bytes header of TCP.

Best regards

Clement


Clement Dupuis, CD

Chief Learning Officer (CLO) and Security Evangelist
GCFW, GCIA, Security+ 301, CEH V7, CCSA, CCSE,  + 12 others

SecureNinja
Office : +<a href="tel:703%20535%208600" value="+17035358600" target="_blank">703 535 8600
Mobile: <a href="tel:%2B1%20407%20433%206444" value="+14074336444" target="_blank">+1 407 433 6444

Email: [hidden email]

Web: www.secureninja.com

Connect with me on LinkedIn | Follow me on Twitter


Description: Secure Ninja @ LinkedinDescription: See Us @ YoutubeDescription: Like us on FacebookDescription: Fallow us Twitter

901 N. Pitt Street, Suite 105
Alexandria, VA  22314

Description: Description: sn_logo

In Cyberspace:

[hidden email]
Clement Dupuis, CD
President/Founder/Chief Security Evangelist
The CCCure Family of Portals
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Maintainer of :

The CCCure Quiz Engine
https://www.freepracticetests.org/quiz/index.php?page=home

The CCCure Family of Portals
http://www.cccure.org

The Professional Security Testers Warehouse
http://www.professionalsecuritytesters.org/

Knowledge sharing and giving back to the community

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>  Call me to get the best CISSP, Security+, or other Security related training  <<
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


On Sun, Mar 16, 2014 at 11:21 PM, Nabil Rasool <[hidden email]> wrote:
I had the following question from Shon Harris.  Can anyone confirm the correct answer?

Which of the following is a "best effort" protocol requiring fewer resources than other protocols?

A)  IP
B)  UDP
C)  TCP
D)  ARP

I had put A) IP however the answer from the Shon Harris total tester is UDP?  Do you agree?

--
Nabil Rasool

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Re: [CCCure CISSP] Best effort protocol question

Doug Spindler

And this is why you need to study to pass the exam than learn the material.  (In my opinion.)

 

 

From: CISSPstudy [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of BobbyJoe
Sent: Monday, March 17, 2014 2:35 PM
To: The CISSP Study Mailing list
Subject: Re: [CCCure CISSP] Best effort protocol question

 

This is why we are asked not to think too deep. A network engineer would have issues thinking out this question. Better keep it simple. One inch please.

Bobby

On Mar 17, 2014 6:14 PM, "Clement Dupuis" <[hidden email]> wrote:

Good day Eoin,

Great thinking!

I would agree with you, considering it did not mention any other requirements, you are right it could be ARP as well.

The only thing that is giving it away is the term "Best effort",  I have never seen ARP being referred to as Best Effort.

Great thinking regardless.

An experience person can guess which one they are referring to, but a junior person in networking may have a hard time.

I agree the questions could be a bit more specific.

Best regards

Clement


Clement Dupuis, CD

Chief Learning Officer (CLO) and Security Evangelist
GCFW, GCIA, Security+ 301, CEH V7, CCSA, CCSE,  + 12 others

SecureNinja
Office : +703 535 8600
Mobile: <a href="tel:%2B1%20407%20433%206444" target="_blank">+1 407 433 6444

Email: [hidden email]

Web: www.secureninja.com

Connect with me on LinkedIn | Follow me on Twitter


Description: Secure Ninja @ LinkedinDescription: See Us @ YoutubeDescription: Like us on FacebookDescription: Fallow us Twitter

901 N. Pitt Street, Suite 105
Alexandria, VA  22314

Description: Description: sn_logo

In Cyberspace:

[hidden email]
Clement Dupuis, CD
President/Founder/Chief Security Evangelist
The CCCure Family of Portals
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Maintainer of :

The CCCure Quiz Engine
https://www.freepracticetests.org/quiz/index.php?page=home

The CCCure Family of Portals
http://www.cccure.org

The Professional Security Testers Warehouse
http://www.professionalsecuritytesters.org/

Knowledge sharing and giving back to the community

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>  Call me to get the best CISSP, Security+, or other Security related training  <<
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

On Mon, Mar 17, 2014 at 3:46 AM, Eoin Ryan <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi Clement

 

I would also agree that it is UDP and that is what I would have chosen in an exam.

 

However I'm interested in your thoughts re ARP as an answer. It is a protocol. The question does not specify the protocol needs to carry user payload. So consider a Gratuitous ARP - it is extremely small, does not require a response at all and it operates at the link layer rather than transport layer (uses fewer resources?). 

 

I would still choose UDP, but I'm trying to tease out why not ARP.

 

Regards,

Eoin



On Monday, March 17, 2014, Clement Dupuis <[hidden email]> wrote:

Good evening Nabil,

It is UDP for sure,  no doubt.

UDP is also knows as a best effort protocol,  the biggest advantage of UDP is speed.  The packet header format is a lot smaller than the 20 bytes header of TCP.

Best regards

Clement


Clement Dupuis, CD

Chief Learning Officer (CLO) and Security Evangelist
GCFW, GCIA, Security+ 301, CEH V7, CCSA, CCSE,  + 12 others

SecureNinja
Office : +<a href="tel:703%20535%208600" target="_blank">703 535 8600
Mobile: <a href="tel:%2B1%20407%20433%206444" target="_blank">+1 407 433 6444

Email: [hidden email]

Web: www.secureninja.com

Connect with me on LinkedIn | Follow me on Twitter


Description: Secure Ninja @ LinkedinDescription: See Us @ YoutubeDescription: Like us on FacebookDescription: Fallow us Twitter

901 N. Pitt Street, Suite 105
Alexandria, VA  22314

Description: Description: sn_logo

In Cyberspace:

[hidden email]
Clement Dupuis, CD
President/Founder/Chief Security Evangelist
The CCCure Family of Portals
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Maintainer of :

The CCCure Quiz Engine
https://www.freepracticetests.org/quiz/index.php?page=home

The CCCure Family of Portals
http://www.cccure.org

The Professional Security Testers Warehouse
http://www.professionalsecuritytesters.org/

Knowledge sharing and giving back to the community

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>  Call me to get the best CISSP, Security+, or other Security related training  <<
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

On Sun, Mar 16, 2014 at 11:21 PM, Nabil Rasool <[hidden email]> wrote:

I had the following question from Shon Harris.  Can anyone confirm the correct answer?

 

Which of the following is a "best effort" protocol requiring fewer resources than other protocols?

 

A)  IP

B)  UDP

C)  TCP

D)  ARP

 

I had put A) IP however the answer from the Shon Harris total tester is UDP?  Do you agree?

 

--
Nabil Rasool


_______________________________________________
You can find the list archive at:
http://cissp-study.3965.n7.nabble.com/

CISSPstudy mailing list
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Re: [CCCure CISSP] Best effort protocol question

nrasool
Ty,

  The question is from shon Harris 6 edition total tester software.  This software comes with the 6th edition book.

Nabil

On Mar 17, 2014, at 6:01 PM, Doug Spindler <[hidden email]> wrote:

And this is why you need to study to pass the exam than learn the material.  (In my opinion.)

 

 

From: CISSPstudy [[hidden email]] On Behalf Of BobbyJoe
Sent: Monday, March 17, 2014 2:35 PM
To: The CISSP Study Mailing list
Subject: Re: [CCCure CISSP] Best effort protocol question

 

This is why we are asked not to think too deep. A network engineer would have issues thinking out this question. Better keep it simple. One inch please.

Bobby

On Mar 17, 2014 6:14 PM, "Clement Dupuis" <[hidden email]> wrote:

Good day Eoin,

Great thinking!

I would agree with you, considering it did not mention any other requirements, you are right it could be ARP as well.

The only thing that is giving it away is the term "Best effort",  I have never seen ARP being referred to as Best Effort.

Great thinking regardless.

An experience person can guess which one they are referring to, but a junior person in networking may have a hard time.

I agree the questions could be a bit more specific.

Best regards

Clement


Clement Dupuis, CD

Chief Learning Officer (CLO) and Security Evangelist
GCFW, GCIA, Security+ 301, CEH V7, CCSA, CCSE,  + 12 others

SecureNinja
Office : +703 535 8600
Mobile: <a href="tel:%2B1%20407%20433%206444" target="_blank">+1 407 433 6444

Email: [hidden email]

Web: www.secureninja.com

Connect with me on LinkedIn | Follow me on Twitter


Description: Secure Ninja @ LinkedinDescription: See Us @ YoutubeDescription: Like us on FacebookDescription: Fallow us Twitter

901 N. Pitt Street, Suite 105
Alexandria, VA  22314

Description: Description: sn_logo

In Cyberspace:

[hidden email]
Clement Dupuis, CD
President/Founder/Chief Security Evangelist
The CCCure Family of Portals
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Maintainer of :

The CCCure Quiz Engine
https://www.freepracticetests.org/quiz/index.php?page=home

The CCCure Family of Portals
http://www.cccure.org

The Professional Security Testers Warehouse
http://www.professionalsecuritytesters.org/

Knowledge sharing and giving back to the community

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>  Call me to get the best CISSP, Security+, or other Security related training  <<
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

On Mon, Mar 17, 2014 at 3:46 AM, Eoin Ryan <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi Clement

 

I would also agree that it is UDP and that is what I would have chosen in an exam.

 

However I'm interested in your thoughts re ARP as an answer. It is a protocol. The question does not specify the protocol needs to carry user payload. So consider a Gratuitous ARP - it is extremely small, does not require a response at all and it operates at the link layer rather than transport layer (uses fewer resources?). 

 

I would still choose UDP, but I'm trying to tease out why not ARP.

 

Regards,

Eoin



On Monday, March 17, 2014, Clement Dupuis <[hidden email]> wrote:

Good evening Nabil,

It is UDP for sure,  no doubt.

UDP is also knows as a best effort protocol,  the biggest advantage of UDP is speed.  The packet header format is a lot smaller than the 20 bytes header of TCP.

Best regards

Clement


Clement Dupuis, CD

Chief Learning Officer (CLO) and Security Evangelist
GCFW, GCIA, Security+ 301, CEH V7, CCSA, CCSE,  + 12 others

SecureNinja
Office : +<a href="tel:703%20535%208600" target="_blank">703 535 8600
Mobile: <a href="tel:%2B1%20407%20433%206444" target="_blank">+1 407 433 6444

Email: [hidden email]

Web: www.secureninja.com

Connect with me on LinkedIn | Follow me on Twitter


Description: Secure Ninja @ LinkedinDescription: See Us @ YoutubeDescription: Like us on FacebookDescription: Fallow us Twitter

901 N. Pitt Street, Suite 105
Alexandria, VA  22314

Description: Description: sn_logo

In Cyberspace:

[hidden email]
Clement Dupuis, CD
President/Founder/Chief Security Evangelist
The CCCure Family of Portals
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Maintainer of :

The CCCure Quiz Engine
https://www.freepracticetests.org/quiz/index.php?page=home

The CCCure Family of Portals
http://www.cccure.org

The Professional Security Testers Warehouse
http://www.professionalsecuritytesters.org/

Knowledge sharing and giving back to the community

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>  Call me to get the best CISSP, Security+, or other Security related training  <<
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

On Sun, Mar 16, 2014 at 11:21 PM, Nabil Rasool <[hidden email]> wrote:

I had the following question from Shon Harris.  Can anyone confirm the correct answer?

 

Which of the following is a "best effort" protocol requiring fewer resources than other protocols?

 

A)  IP

B)  UDP

C)  TCP

D)  ARP

 

I had put A) IP however the answer from the Shon Harris total tester is UDP?  Do you agree?

 

--
Nabil Rasool


_______________________________________________
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http://cissp-study.3965.n7.nabble.com/

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Re: [CCCure CISSP] Best effort protocol question

Tyron Taylor

Thank you

 

From: CISSPstudy [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of [hidden email]
Sent: Monday, March 17, 2014 6:29 PM
To: The CISSP Study Mailing list
Subject: Re: [CCCure CISSP] Best effort protocol question

 

Ty,

 

  The question is from shon Harris 6 edition total tester software.  This software comes with the 6th edition book.

Nabil


On Mar 17, 2014, at 6:01 PM, Doug Spindler <[hidden email]> wrote:

And this is why you need to study to pass the exam than learn the material.  (In my opinion.)

 

 


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Re: [CCCure CISSP] Best effort protocol question

Jim White
In reply to this post by BobbyJoe

Let me throw in my 2 cents worth. I’ve always seen UDP referred to as “connectionless, non-guaranteed delivery” (best-effort, like the 1st class mail. No receipt, no loss or delay notification), while TCP is referred to as Connection-based, guaranteed delivery (certified letter, tracking, delivery receipt, etc.); in other words, lots of additional “resources”. IP, on the other hand, is mostly responsible for routing; i.e. finding the next hop.

 

From Wikipedia: “UDP provides data integrity via a checksum but does not guarantee delivery; TCP provides both data integrity and delivery guarantee by retransmitting until the receiver acknowledges the reception of the packet.”

 

According to Wikipedia, for whatever its worth, (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OSI_Model), TCP utilizes more “resources” than UPP. Oh, and by the way, who says we’re talking about the OSI model? (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TCP/IP_model), not that it impacts the answer in this discussion.  

 

I’m going UDP.

 

Jim

 

From: CISSPstudy [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of BobbyJoe
Sent: Monday, March 17, 2014 4:35 PM
To: The CISSP Study Mailing list
Subject: Re: [CCCure CISSP] Best effort protocol question

 

This is why we are asked not to think too deep. A network engineer would have issues thinking out this question. Better keep it simple. One inch please.

Bobby

On Mar 17, 2014 6:14 PM, "Clement Dupuis" <[hidden email]> wrote:

Good day Eoin,

Great thinking!

I would agree with you, considering it did not mention any other requirements, you are right it could be ARP as well.

The only thing that is giving it away is the term "Best effort",  I have never seen ARP being referred to as Best Effort.

Great thinking regardless.

An experience person can guess which one they are referring to, but a junior person in networking may have a hard time.

I agree the questions could be a bit more specific.

Best regards

Clement


Clement Dupuis, CD

Chief Learning Officer (CLO) and Security Evangelist
GCFW, GCIA, Security+ 301, CEH V7, CCSA, CCSE,  + 12 others

SecureNinja
Office : +703 535 8600
Mobile: <a href="tel:%2B1%20407%20433%206444" target="_blank">+1 407 433 6444

Email: [hidden email]

Web: www.secureninja.com

Connect with me on LinkedIn | Follow me on Twitter


Description: Secure Ninja @ LinkedinDescription: See Us @ YoutubeDescription: Like us on FacebookDescription: Fallow us Twitter

901 N. Pitt Street, Suite 105
Alexandria, VA  22314

Description: Description: sn_logo

In Cyberspace:

[hidden email]
Clement Dupuis, CD
President/Founder/Chief Security Evangelist
The CCCure Family of Portals
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Maintainer of :

The CCCure Quiz Engine
https://www.freepracticetests.org/quiz/index.php?page=home

The CCCure Family of Portals
http://www.cccure.org

The Professional Security Testers Warehouse
http://www.professionalsecuritytesters.org/

Knowledge sharing and giving back to the community

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>  Call me to get the best CISSP, Security+, or other Security related training  <<
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

On Mon, Mar 17, 2014 at 3:46 AM, Eoin Ryan <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi Clement

 

I would also agree that it is UDP and that is what I would have chosen in an exam.

 

However I'm interested in your thoughts re ARP as an answer. It is a protocol. The question does not specify the protocol needs to carry user payload. So consider a Gratuitous ARP - it is extremely small, does not require a response at all and it operates at the link layer rather than transport layer (uses fewer resources?). 

 

I would still choose UDP, but I'm trying to tease out why not ARP.

 

Regards,

Eoin



On Monday, March 17, 2014, Clement Dupuis <[hidden email]> wrote:

Good evening Nabil,

It is UDP for sure,  no doubt.

UDP is also knows as a best effort protocol,  the biggest advantage of UDP is speed.  The packet header format is a lot smaller than the 20 bytes header of TCP.

Best regards

Clement


Clement Dupuis, CD

Chief Learning Officer (CLO) and Security Evangelist
GCFW, GCIA, Security+ 301, CEH V7, CCSA, CCSE,  + 12 others

SecureNinja
Office : +<a href="tel:703%20535%208600" target="_blank">703 535 8600
Mobile: <a href="tel:%2B1%20407%20433%206444" target="_blank">+1 407 433 6444

Email: [hidden email]

Web: www.secureninja.com

Connect with me on LinkedIn | Follow me on Twitter


Description: Secure Ninja @ LinkedinDescription: See Us @ YoutubeDescription: Like us on FacebookDescription: Fallow us Twitter

901 N. Pitt Street, Suite 105
Alexandria, VA  22314

Description: Description: sn_logo

In Cyberspace:

[hidden email]
Clement Dupuis, CD
President/Founder/Chief Security Evangelist
The CCCure Family of Portals
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Maintainer of :

The CCCure Quiz Engine
https://www.freepracticetests.org/quiz/index.php?page=home

The CCCure Family of Portals
http://www.cccure.org

The Professional Security Testers Warehouse
http://www.professionalsecuritytesters.org/

Knowledge sharing and giving back to the community

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>  Call me to get the best CISSP, Security+, or other Security related training  <<
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

On Sun, Mar 16, 2014 at 11:21 PM, Nabil Rasool <[hidden email]> wrote:

I had the following question from Shon Harris.  Can anyone confirm the correct answer?

 

Which of the following is a "best effort" protocol requiring fewer resources than other protocols?

 

A)  IP

B)  UDP

C)  TCP

D)  ARP

 

I had put A) IP however the answer from the Shon Harris total tester is UDP?  Do you agree?

 

--
Nabil Rasool


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Re: [CCCure CISSP] Best effort protocol question

Jim White
In reply to this post by Tyron Taylor

Let’s all step back a few feet. While I see Shon’s material to be among the best-of-class, I am not naive enough to believe that she is infallible. While in this case, she is 100% correct, you can never accept anyone’s answers (even Shon’s) at face value. You can’t know the answer is correct until you understand why the answer is the answer. Embrace a healthy skepticism, please.

 

Jim White

Lapsed CISSP. Passed in 2009.

 

From: CISSPstudy [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Tyron Taylor
Sent: Monday, March 17, 2014 5:53 PM
To: 'The CISSP Study Mailing list'
Subject: Re: [CCCure CISSP] Best effort protocol question

 

Thank you

 

From: CISSPstudy [[hidden email]] On Behalf Of [hidden email]
Sent: Monday, March 17, 2014 6:29 PM
To: The CISSP Study Mailing list
Subject: Re: [CCCure CISSP] Best effort protocol question

 

Ty,

 

  The question is from shon Harris 6 edition total tester software.  This software comes with the 6th edition book.

Nabil


On Mar 17, 2014, at 6:01 PM, Doug Spindler <[hidden email]> wrote:

And this is why you need to study to pass the exam than learn the material.  (In my opinion.)

 

 




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Re: [CCCure CISSP] Best effort protocol question

Doug Spindler
In reply to this post by Jim White

Only problem is UDP which is a higher layer protocol requires more resources that IP.  The question asks least amount of resources.

 

Wikipedia clearly states IP is a “Best Effort” protocol.


ARP is a two OSI layer protocol with would require more resources than IP which just uses one layer.

 

 

 

 

From: CISSPstudy [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of James White
Sent: Monday, March 17, 2014 4:55 PM
To: 'The CISSP Study Mailing list'
Subject: Re: [CCCure CISSP] Best effort protocol question

 

Let me throw in my 2 cents worth. I’ve always seen UDP referred to as “connectionless, non-guaranteed delivery” (best-effort, like the 1st class mail. No receipt, no loss or delay notification), while TCP is referred to as Connection-based, guaranteed delivery (certified letter, tracking, delivery receipt, etc.); in other words, lots of additional “resources”. IP, on the other hand, is mostly responsible for routing; i.e. finding the next hop.

 

From Wikipedia: “UDP provides data integrity via a checksum but does not guarantee delivery; TCP provides both data integrity and delivery guarantee by retransmitting until the receiver acknowledges the reception of the packet.”

 

According to Wikipedia, for whatever its worth, (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OSI_Model), TCP utilizes more “resources” than UPP. Oh, and by the way, who says we’re talking about the OSI model? (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TCP/IP_model), not that it impacts the answer in this discussion.  

 

I’m going UDP.

 

Jim

 

From: CISSPstudy [[hidden email]] On Behalf Of BobbyJoe
Sent: Monday, March 17, 2014 4:35 PM
To: The CISSP Study Mailing list
Subject: Re: [CCCure CISSP] Best effort protocol question

 

This is why we are asked not to think too deep. A network engineer would have issues thinking out this question. Better keep it simple. One inch please.

Bobby

On Mar 17, 2014 6:14 PM, "Clement Dupuis" <[hidden email]> wrote:

Good day Eoin,

Great thinking!

I would agree with you, considering it did not mention any other requirements, you are right it could be ARP as well.

The only thing that is giving it away is the term "Best effort",  I have never seen ARP being referred to as Best Effort.

Great thinking regardless.

An experience person can guess which one they are referring to, but a junior person in networking may have a hard time.

I agree the questions could be a bit more specific.

Best regards

Clement


Clement Dupuis, CD

Chief Learning Officer (CLO) and Security Evangelist
GCFW, GCIA, Security+ 301, CEH V7, CCSA, CCSE,  + 12 others

SecureNinja
Office : +703 535 8600
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----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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On Mon, Mar 17, 2014 at 3:46 AM, Eoin Ryan <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi Clement

 

I would also agree that it is UDP and that is what I would have chosen in an exam.

 

However I'm interested in your thoughts re ARP as an answer. It is a protocol. The question does not specify the protocol needs to carry user payload. So consider a Gratuitous ARP - it is extremely small, does not require a response at all and it operates at the link layer rather than transport layer (uses fewer resources?). 

 

I would still choose UDP, but I'm trying to tease out why not ARP.

 

Regards,

Eoin



On Monday, March 17, 2014, Clement Dupuis <[hidden email]> wrote:

Good evening Nabil,

It is UDP for sure,  no doubt.

UDP is also knows as a best effort protocol,  the biggest advantage of UDP is speed.  The packet header format is a lot smaller than the 20 bytes header of TCP.

Best regards

Clement


Clement Dupuis, CD

Chief Learning Officer (CLO) and Security Evangelist
GCFW, GCIA, Security+ 301, CEH V7, CCSA, CCSE,  + 12 others

SecureNinja
Office : +<a href="tel:703%20535%208600" target="_blank">703 535 8600
Mobile: <a href="tel:%2B1%20407%20433%206444" target="_blank">+1 407 433 6444

Email: [hidden email]

Web: www.secureninja.com

Connect with me on LinkedIn | Follow me on Twitter


Description: Secure Ninja @ LinkedinDescription: See Us @ YoutubeDescription: Like us on FacebookDescription: Fallow us Twitter

901 N. Pitt Street, Suite 105
Alexandria, VA  22314

Description: Description: sn_logo

In Cyberspace:

[hidden email]
Clement Dupuis, CD
President/Founder/Chief Security Evangelist
The CCCure Family of Portals
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Maintainer of :

The CCCure Quiz Engine
https://www.freepracticetests.org/quiz/index.php?page=home

The CCCure Family of Portals
http://www.cccure.org

The Professional Security Testers Warehouse
http://www.professionalsecuritytesters.org/

Knowledge sharing and giving back to the community

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>  Call me to get the best CISSP, Security+, or other Security related training  <<
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

On Sun, Mar 16, 2014 at 11:21 PM, Nabil Rasool <[hidden email]> wrote:

I had the following question from Shon Harris.  Can anyone confirm the correct answer?

 

Which of the following is a "best effort" protocol requiring fewer resources than other protocols?

 

A)  IP

B)  UDP

C)  TCP

D)  ARP

 

I had put A) IP however the answer from the Shon Harris total tester is UDP?  Do you agree?

 

--
Nabil Rasool


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Re: [CCCure CISSP] Best effort protocol question

Doug Spindler
In reply to this post by Jim White

It could be argued the same principal applies to the folks who correct the exam.

 

 

 

From: CISSPstudy [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of James White
Sent: Monday, March 17, 2014 5:01 PM
To: 'The CISSP Study Mailing list'
Subject: Re: [CCCure CISSP] Best effort protocol question

 

Let’s all step back a few feet. While I see Shon’s material to be among the best-of-class, I am not naive enough to believe that she is infallible. While in this case, she is 100% correct, you can never accept anyone’s answers (even Shon’s) at face value. You can’t know the answer is correct until you understand why the answer is the answer. Embrace a healthy skepticism, please.

 

Jim White

Lapsed CISSP. Passed in 2009.

 

From: CISSPstudy [[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Tyron Taylor
Sent: Monday, March 17, 2014 5:53 PM
To: 'The CISSP Study Mailing list'
Subject: Re: [CCCure CISSP] Best effort protocol question

 

Thank you

 

From: CISSPstudy [[hidden email]] On Behalf Of [hidden email]
Sent: Monday, March 17, 2014 6:29 PM
To: The CISSP Study Mailing list
Subject: Re: [CCCure CISSP] Best effort protocol question

 

Ty,

 

  The question is from shon Harris 6 edition total tester software.  This software comes with the 6th edition book.

Nabil


On Mar 17, 2014, at 6:01 PM, Doug Spindler <[hidden email]> wrote:

And this is why you need to study to pass the exam than learn the material.  (In my opinion.)

 

 

 


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Re: [CCCure CISSP] Best effort protocol question

Eoin Ryan
In reply to this post by Doug Spindler
Hi Doug,

I gotta call you out on your last mail, because I believe it to be contradictory.

Layer 4 = UDP
Layer 3 = IP
Layer 2 = ARP

If we disregard the cost of layer encapsulation then 2 < 3 < 4

If we regard the cost of layer encapsulation then 4 < 3 < 2

But what you are saying is that 3 < 4 < 2 OR 3 < 2 < 4 (you don't specify) but I cannot see how that is possible.  

If I'm wrong I would love to be corrected as I'm always willing to learn more.

Regards,
Eoin


On 18 March 2014 07:44, Doug Spindler <[hidden email]> wrote:

Only problem is UDP which is a higher layer protocol requires more resources that IP.  The question asks least amount of resources.

 

Wikipedia clearly states IP is a “Best Effort” protocol.


ARP is a two OSI layer protocol with would require more resources than IP which just uses one layer.

 

 

 

 

From: CISSPstudy [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of James White
Sent: Monday, March 17, 2014 4:55 PM


To: 'The CISSP Study Mailing list'
Subject: Re: [CCCure CISSP] Best effort protocol question

 

Let me throw in my 2 cents worth. I’ve always seen UDP referred to as “connectionless, non-guaranteed delivery” (best-effort, like the 1st class mail. No receipt, no loss or delay notification), while TCP is referred to as Connection-based, guaranteed delivery (certified letter, tracking, delivery receipt, etc.); in other words, lots of additional “resources”. IP, on the other hand, is mostly responsible for routing; i.e. finding the next hop.

 

From Wikipedia: “UDP provides data integrity via a checksum but does not guarantee delivery; TCP provides both data integrity and delivery guarantee by retransmitting until the receiver acknowledges the reception of the packet.”

 

According to Wikipedia, for whatever its worth, (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OSI_Model), TCP utilizes more “resources” than UPP. Oh, and by the way, who says we’re talking about the OSI model? (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TCP/IP_model), not that it impacts the answer in this discussion.  

 

I’m going UDP.

 

Jim

 

From: CISSPstudy [[hidden email]] On Behalf Of BobbyJoe
Sent: Monday, March 17, 2014 4:35 PM
To: The CISSP Study Mailing list
Subject: Re: [CCCure CISSP] Best effort protocol question

 

This is why we are asked not to think too deep. A network engineer would have issues thinking out this question. Better keep it simple. One inch please.

Bobby

On Mar 17, 2014 6:14 PM, "Clement Dupuis" <[hidden email]> wrote:

Good day Eoin,

Great thinking!

I would agree with you, considering it did not mention any other requirements, you are right it could be ARP as well.

The only thing that is giving it away is the term "Best effort",  I have never seen ARP being referred to as Best Effort.

Great thinking regardless.

An experience person can guess which one they are referring to, but a junior person in networking may have a hard time.

I agree the questions could be a bit more specific.

Best regards

Clement


Clement Dupuis, CD

Chief Learning Officer (CLO) and Security Evangelist
GCFW, GCIA, Security+ 301, CEH V7, CCSA, CCSE,  + 12 others

SecureNinja
Office : +703 535 8600
Mobile: <a href="tel:%2B1%20407%20433%206444" target="_blank">+1 407 433 6444

Email: [hidden email]

Web: www.secureninja.com

Connect with me on LinkedIn | Follow me on Twitter


Description: Secure Ninja @ LinkedinDescription: See Us @ YoutubeDescription: Like us on FacebookDescription: Fallow us Twitter

901 N. Pitt Street, Suite 105
Alexandria, VA  22314

Description: Description: sn_logo

In Cyberspace:

[hidden email]
Clement Dupuis, CD
President/Founder/Chief Security Evangelist
The CCCure Family of Portals
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Maintainer of :

The CCCure Quiz Engine
https://www.freepracticetests.org/quiz/index.php?page=home

The CCCure Family of Portals
http://www.cccure.org

The Professional Security Testers Warehouse
http://www.professionalsecuritytesters.org/

Knowledge sharing and giving back to the community

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>  Call me to get the best CISSP, Security+, or other Security related training  <<
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

On Mon, Mar 17, 2014 at 3:46 AM, Eoin Ryan <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi Clement

 

I would also agree that it is UDP and that is what I would have chosen in an exam.

 

However I'm interested in your thoughts re ARP as an answer. It is a protocol. The question does not specify the protocol needs to carry user payload. So consider a Gratuitous ARP - it is extremely small, does not require a response at all and it operates at the link layer rather than transport layer (uses fewer resources?). 

 

I would still choose UDP, but I'm trying to tease out why not ARP.

 

Regards,

Eoin



On Monday, March 17, 2014, Clement Dupuis <[hidden email]> wrote:

Good evening Nabil,

It is UDP for sure,  no doubt.

UDP is also knows as a best effort protocol,  the biggest advantage of UDP is speed.  The packet header format is a lot smaller than the 20 bytes header of TCP.

Best regards

Clement


Clement Dupuis, CD

Chief Learning Officer (CLO) and Security Evangelist
GCFW, GCIA, Security+ 301, CEH V7, CCSA, CCSE,  + 12 others

SecureNinja
Office : +<a href="tel:703%20535%208600" target="_blank">703 535 8600
Mobile: <a href="tel:%2B1%20407%20433%206444" target="_blank">+1 407 433 6444

Email: [hidden email]

Web: www.secureninja.com

Connect with me on LinkedIn | Follow me on Twitter


Description: Secure Ninja @ LinkedinDescription: See Us @ YoutubeDescription: Like us on FacebookDescription: Fallow us Twitter

901 N. Pitt Street, Suite 105
Alexandria, VA  22314

Description: Description: sn_logo

In Cyberspace:

[hidden email]
Clement Dupuis, CD
President/Founder/Chief Security Evangelist
The CCCure Family of Portals
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Maintainer of :

The CCCure Quiz Engine
https://www.freepracticetests.org/quiz/index.php?page=home

The CCCure Family of Portals
http://www.cccure.org

The Professional Security Testers Warehouse
http://www.professionalsecuritytesters.org/

Knowledge sharing and giving back to the community

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>  Call me to get the best CISSP, Security+, or other Security related training  <<
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

On Sun, Mar 16, 2014 at 11:21 PM, Nabil Rasool <[hidden email]> wrote:

I had the following question from Shon Harris.  Can anyone confirm the correct answer?

 

Which of the following is a "best effort" protocol requiring fewer resources than other protocols?

 

A)  IP

B)  UDP

C)  TCP

D)  ARP

 

I had put A) IP however the answer from the Shon Harris total tester is UDP?  Do you agree?

 

--
Nabil Rasool


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Re: [CCCure CISSP] Best effort protocol question

Eoin Ryan
Hi All,

I want to give my final two cents on the original question however I do agree with one persons message to not think too deeply on this, but anyway.

Let us agree firstly that connection-less and best effort are essentially synonymous.  So as evidenced there is a great amount of disagreement.  So this is just my interpretation of it.

In the basic Networking Theory literature when students learn the difference between TCP and UDP, they are thought about it in terms of "reliable" and "best effort".  Because TCP's reliability properties so underpin the Internet today, these extra non technical terms were introduced to reenforce the concepts to students.  Just like the post delivery example mentioned above. 

However when studying about other layers, they are most often but not exclusively referred to as connection oriented or connection less.  

I think this question is partly trick and partly calculation.  The trick part, or perhaps to put another way, the "don't think too deeply about this" part of it is to recognise that the somewhat poky "best effort" reference refers to a Transport layer protocol.  That then immediately reduces the options to UDP and TCP.  Then the second part about resources is obvious, because TCP needs to maintain state and retransmission so clearly requires more resources than UDP.

I think if the question intended the answer to be IP or ARP then the part of the question that refers to resources is extremely vague.  On the other hand if I am correct in the paragraph above, then that part of the question gives enough information to solve the question.

Again just my two cents as a networking guy considering doing the CISSP.

Regards,
Eoin


On 18 March 2014 10:49, Eoin Ryan <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi Doug,

I gotta call you out on your last mail, because I believe it to be contradictory.

Layer 4 = UDP
Layer 3 = IP
Layer 2 = ARP

If we disregard the cost of layer encapsulation then 2 < 3 < 4

If we regard the cost of layer encapsulation then 4 < 3 < 2

But what you are saying is that 3 < 4 < 2 OR 3 < 2 < 4 (you don't specify) but I cannot see how that is possible.  

If I'm wrong I would love to be corrected as I'm always willing to learn more.

Regards,
Eoin


On 18 March 2014 07:44, Doug Spindler <[hidden email]> wrote:

Only problem is UDP which is a higher layer protocol requires more resources that IP.  The question asks least amount of resources.

 

Wikipedia clearly states IP is a “Best Effort” protocol.


ARP is a two OSI layer protocol with would require more resources than IP which just uses one layer.

 

 

 

 

From: CISSPstudy [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of James White
Sent: Monday, March 17, 2014 4:55 PM


To: 'The CISSP Study Mailing list'
Subject: Re: [CCCure CISSP] Best effort protocol question

 

Let me throw in my 2 cents worth. I’ve always seen UDP referred to as “connectionless, non-guaranteed delivery” (best-effort, like the 1st class mail. No receipt, no loss or delay notification), while TCP is referred to as Connection-based, guaranteed delivery (certified letter, tracking, delivery receipt, etc.); in other words, lots of additional “resources”. IP, on the other hand, is mostly responsible for routing; i.e. finding the next hop.

 

From Wikipedia: “UDP provides data integrity via a checksum but does not guarantee delivery; TCP provides both data integrity and delivery guarantee by retransmitting until the receiver acknowledges the reception of the packet.”

 

According to Wikipedia, for whatever its worth, (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OSI_Model), TCP utilizes more “resources” than UPP. Oh, and by the way, who says we’re talking about the OSI model? (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TCP/IP_model), not that it impacts the answer in this discussion.  

 

I’m going UDP.

 

Jim

 

From: CISSPstudy [[hidden email]] On Behalf Of BobbyJoe
Sent: Monday, March 17, 2014 4:35 PM
To: The CISSP Study Mailing list
Subject: Re: [CCCure CISSP] Best effort protocol question

 

This is why we are asked not to think too deep. A network engineer would have issues thinking out this question. Better keep it simple. One inch please.

Bobby

On Mar 17, 2014 6:14 PM, "Clement Dupuis" <[hidden email]> wrote:

Good day Eoin,

Great thinking!

I would agree with you, considering it did not mention any other requirements, you are right it could be ARP as well.

The only thing that is giving it away is the term "Best effort",  I have never seen ARP being referred to as Best Effort.

Great thinking regardless.

An experience person can guess which one they are referring to, but a junior person in networking may have a hard time.

I agree the questions could be a bit more specific.

Best regards

Clement


Clement Dupuis, CD

Chief Learning Officer (CLO) and Security Evangelist
GCFW, GCIA, Security+ 301, CEH V7, CCSA, CCSE,  + 12 others

SecureNinja
Office : +703 535 8600
Mobile: <a href="tel:%2B1%20407%20433%206444" target="_blank">+1 407 433 6444

Email: [hidden email]

Web: www.secureninja.com

Connect with me on LinkedIn | Follow me on Twitter


Description: Secure Ninja @ LinkedinDescription: See Us @ YoutubeDescription: Like us on FacebookDescription: Fallow us Twitter

901 N. Pitt Street, Suite 105
Alexandria, VA  22314

Description: Description: sn_logo

In Cyberspace:

[hidden email]
Clement Dupuis, CD
President/Founder/Chief Security Evangelist
The CCCure Family of Portals
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Maintainer of :

The CCCure Quiz Engine
https://www.freepracticetests.org/quiz/index.php?page=home

The CCCure Family of Portals
http://www.cccure.org

The Professional Security Testers Warehouse
http://www.professionalsecuritytesters.org/

Knowledge sharing and giving back to the community

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>  Call me to get the best CISSP, Security+, or other Security related training  <<
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

On Mon, Mar 17, 2014 at 3:46 AM, Eoin Ryan <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi Clement

 

I would also agree that it is UDP and that is what I would have chosen in an exam.

 

However I'm interested in your thoughts re ARP as an answer. It is a protocol. The question does not specify the protocol needs to carry user payload. So consider a Gratuitous ARP - it is extremely small, does not require a response at all and it operates at the link layer rather than transport layer (uses fewer resources?). 

 

I would still choose UDP, but I'm trying to tease out why not ARP.

 

Regards,

Eoin



On Monday, March 17, 2014, Clement Dupuis <[hidden email]> wrote:

Good evening Nabil,

It is UDP for sure,  no doubt.

UDP is also knows as a best effort protocol,  the biggest advantage of UDP is speed.  The packet header format is a lot smaller than the 20 bytes header of TCP.

Best regards

Clement


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GCFW, GCIA, Security+ 301, CEH V7, CCSA, CCSE,  + 12 others

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On Sun, Mar 16, 2014 at 11:21 PM, Nabil Rasool <[hidden email]> wrote:

I had the following question from Shon Harris.  Can anyone confirm the correct answer?

 

Which of the following is a "best effort" protocol requiring fewer resources than other protocols?

 

A)  IP

B)  UDP

C)  TCP

D)  ARP

 

I had put A) IP however the answer from the Shon Harris total tester is UDP?  Do you agree?

 

--
Nabil Rasool


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Re: [CCCure CISSP] Best effort protocol question

Doug Spindler
In reply to this post by Eoin Ryan

Ummm   Layer 2 = ARP  ?   I was taught ARP was Layer3 resolving protocol to Layer 2.

I think you are thinking of RARP?  Which is layer 2.


Remember is only exists in IPv4.  Since the question doesn’t specify IPv4 or IPv6 (we have to assume we are talking about both) ARP would be only be patricianly correct.  Since it’s not 100% correct its’ the wrong answer.  

 

Getting back to the questions, since APR spans multiple OSI layers it would be more resources intensive and therefore the incorrect answer.  Also APR is a resolving protocol so there is no best effort delivery.  It either resolves or it doesn’t, there is no delivery.


I’ve never heard or IP as a routing protocol.  IP is responsible for next hop delivery.  UDP and TCP can’t do that.

 

Think about when you use ping.  You are using IPv4 or IPv6 and using best effort to deliver that frame. 

 

I would still argue UDP and TCP are both incorrect since they both require more resources.  (TCP and UDP both require IP, which means they require more resources to assemble a frame.

 

IP still appears to be the best answer for this question.

 

 

 

 

From: CISSPstudy [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Eoin Ryan
Sent: Monday, March 17, 2014 8:50 PM
To: The CISSP Study Mailing list
Subject: Re: [CCCure CISSP] Best effort protocol question

 

Hi Doug,

 

I gotta call you out on your last mail, because I believe it to be contradictory.

 

Layer 4 = UDP

Layer 3 = IP

Layer 2 = ARP

 

If we disregard the cost of layer encapsulation then 2 < 3 < 4

 

If we regard the cost of layer encapsulation then 4 < 3 < 2

 

But what you are saying is that 3 < 4 < 2 OR 3 < 2 < 4 (you don't specify) but I cannot see how that is possible.  

 

If I'm wrong I would love to be corrected as I'm always willing to learn more.

 

Regards,

Eoin

 

On 18 March 2014 07:44, Doug Spindler <[hidden email]> wrote:

Only problem is UDP which is a higher layer protocol requires more resources that IP.  The question asks least amount of resources.

 

Wikipedia clearly states IP is a “Best Effort” protocol.


ARP is a two OSI layer protocol with would require more resources than IP which just uses one layer.

 

 

 

 

From: CISSPstudy [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of James White
Sent: Monday, March 17, 2014 4:55 PM


To: 'The CISSP Study Mailing list'
Subject: Re: [CCCure CISSP] Best effort protocol question

 

Let me throw in my 2 cents worth. I’ve always seen UDP referred to as “connectionless, non-guaranteed delivery” (best-effort, like the 1st class mail. No receipt, no loss or delay notification), while TCP is referred to as Connection-based, guaranteed delivery (certified letter, tracking, delivery receipt, etc.); in other words, lots of additional “resources”. IP, on the other hand, is mostly responsible for routing; i.e. finding the next hop.

 

From Wikipedia: “UDP provides data integrity via a checksum but does not guarantee delivery; TCP provides both data integrity and delivery guarantee by retransmitting until the receiver acknowledges the reception of the packet.”

 

According to Wikipedia, for whatever its worth, (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OSI_Model), TCP utilizes more “resources” than UPP. Oh, and by the way, who says we’re talking about the OSI model? (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TCP/IP_model), not that it impacts the answer in this discussion.  

 

I’m going UDP.

 

Jim

 

From: CISSPstudy [[hidden email]] On Behalf Of BobbyJoe
Sent: Monday, March 17, 2014 4:35 PM
To: The CISSP Study Mailing list
Subject: Re: [CCCure CISSP] Best effort protocol question

 

This is why we are asked not to think too deep. A network engineer would have issues thinking out this question. Better keep it simple. One inch please.

Bobby

On Mar 17, 2014 6:14 PM, "Clement Dupuis" <[hidden email]> wrote:

Good day Eoin,

Great thinking!

I would agree with you, considering it did not mention any other requirements, you are right it could be ARP as well.

The only thing that is giving it away is the term "Best effort",  I have never seen ARP being referred to as Best Effort.

Great thinking regardless.

An experience person can guess which one they are referring to, but a junior person in networking may have a hard time.

I agree the questions could be a bit more specific.

Best regards

Clement


Clement Dupuis, CD

Chief Learning Officer (CLO) and Security Evangelist
GCFW, GCIA, Security+ 301, CEH V7, CCSA, CCSE,  + 12 others

SecureNinja
Office : +703 535 8600
Mobile: <a href="tel:%2B1%20407%20433%206444" target="_blank">+1 407 433 6444

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The CCCure Family of Portals
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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On Mon, Mar 17, 2014 at 3:46 AM, Eoin Ryan <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi Clement

 

I would also agree that it is UDP and that is what I would have chosen in an exam.

 

However I'm interested in your thoughts re ARP as an answer. It is a protocol. The question does not specify the protocol needs to carry user payload. So consider a Gratuitous ARP - it is extremely small, does not require a response at all and it operates at the link layer rather than transport layer (uses fewer resources?). 

 

I would still choose UDP, but I'm trying to tease out why not ARP.

 

Regards,

Eoin



On Monday, March 17, 2014, Clement Dupuis <[hidden email]> wrote:

Good evening Nabil,

It is UDP for sure,  no doubt.

UDP is also knows as a best effort protocol,  the biggest advantage of UDP is speed.  The packet header format is a lot smaller than the 20 bytes header of TCP.

Best regards

Clement


Clement Dupuis, CD

Chief Learning Officer (CLO) and Security Evangelist
GCFW, GCIA, Security+ 301, CEH V7, CCSA, CCSE,  + 12 others

SecureNinja
Office : +<a href="tel:703%20535%208600" target="_blank">703 535 8600
Mobile: <a href="tel:%2B1%20407%20433%206444" target="_blank">+1 407 433 6444

Email: [hidden email]

Web: www.secureninja.com

Connect with me on LinkedIn | Follow me on Twitter


Description: Secure Ninja @ LinkedinDescription: See Us @ YoutubeDescription: Like us on FacebookDescription: Fallow us Twitter

901 N. Pitt Street, Suite 105
Alexandria, VA  22314

Description: Description: sn_logo

In Cyberspace:

[hidden email]
Clement Dupuis, CD
President/Founder/Chief Security Evangelist
The CCCure Family of Portals
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Maintainer of :

The CCCure Quiz Engine
https://www.freepracticetests.org/quiz/index.php?page=home

The CCCure Family of Portals
http://www.cccure.org

The Professional Security Testers Warehouse
http://www.professionalsecuritytesters.org/

Knowledge sharing and giving back to the community

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>  Call me to get the best CISSP, Security+, or other Security related training  <<
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

On Sun, Mar 16, 2014 at 11:21 PM, Nabil Rasool <[hidden email]> wrote:

I had the following question from Shon Harris.  Can anyone confirm the correct answer?

 

Which of the following is a "best effort" protocol requiring fewer resources than other protocols?

 

A)  IP

B)  UDP

C)  TCP

D)  ARP

 

I had put A) IP however the answer from the Shon Harris total tester is UDP?  Do you agree?

 

--
Nabil Rasool


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Re: [CCCure CISSP] Best effort protocol question

Eoin Ryan
Hi Doug

According to the table on the right of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_protocol_suite ARP is a Link Layer protocol. It provides services to the Network layer, yes, but it still operates at the Link Layer.

Ummm, but the very principle of defining the OSI layers was to simplify and ensure each network function (layer) only provides services to the layer immediately above it and uses the services of the layer immediately below it. ARP will never have anything direct to do with UDP or TCP. So I disagree with your statement of it spanning multiple layers (except as noted the layers above and below it - a trait shared amongst all layers of the model).

Anyway, skipping a couple of your points and getting to what I think is the crucial difference in each others thinking on this matter: 

I think you are interpreting "resources" as the top down (protocol stack) computational resource required to encapsulate a message so that it is ready for electrical or optical transmission on the physical media. 

You might well be right - the question is very vague in that regard. 

Whereas I interpret "resources" as the end-to-end host-to-host resources (overhead) required to deliver messages between hosts either reliably or unreliably. I favor this interpretation of resources because the question is about packet delivery [to a host]. 

I would still stick with the official answer UDP. 

Regards
Eoin


On Tuesday, March 18, 2014, Doug Spindler <[hidden email]> wrote:

Ummm   Layer 2 = ARP  ?   I was taught ARP was Layer3 resolving protocol to Layer 2.

I think you are thinking of RARP?  Which is layer 2.


Remember is only exists in IPv4.  Since the question doesn’t specify IPv4 or IPv6 (we have to assume we are talking about both) ARP would be only be patricianly correct.  Since it’s not 100% correct its’ the wrong answer.  

 

Getting back to the questions, since APR spans multiple OSI layers it would be more resources intensive and therefore the incorrect answer.  Also APR is a resolving protocol so there is no best effort delivery.  It either resolves or it doesn’t, there is no delivery.


I’ve never heard or IP as a routing protocol.  IP is responsible for next hop delivery.  UDP and TCP can’t do that.

 

Think about when you use ping.  You are using IPv4 or IPv6 and using best effort to deliver that frame. 

 

I would still argue UDP and TCP are both incorrect since they both require more resources.  (TCP and UDP both require IP, which means they require more resources to assemble a frame.

 

IP still appears to be the best answer for this question.

 

 

 

 

From: CISSPstudy [mailto:<a href="javascript:_e(%7B%7D,&#39;cvml&#39;,&#39;cisspstudy-bounces@cccure.org&#39;);" target="_blank">cisspstudy-bounces@...] On Behalf Of Eoin Ryan
Sent: Monday, March 17, 2014 8:50 PM
To: The CISSP Study Mailing list
Subject: Re: [CCCure CISSP] Best effort protocol question

 

Hi Doug,

 

I gotta call you out on your last mail, because I believe it to be contradictory.

 

Layer 4 = UDP

Layer 3 = IP

Layer 2 = ARP

 

If we disregard the cost of layer encapsulation then 2 < 3 < 4

 

If we regard the cost of layer encapsulation then 4 < 3 < 2

 

But what you are saying is that 3 < 4 < 2 OR 3 < 2 < 4 (you don't specify) but I cannot see how that is possible.  

 

If I'm wrong I would love to be corrected as I'm always willing to learn more.

 

Regards,

Eoin

 

On 18 March 2014 07:44, Doug Spindler <[hidden email]> wrote:

Only problem is UDP which is a higher layer protocol requires more resources that IP.  The question asks least amount of resources.

 

Wikipedia clearly states IP is a “Best Effort” protocol.


ARP is a two OSI layer protocol with would require more resources than IP which just uses one layer.

 

 

 

 

From: CISSPstudy [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of James White
Sent: Monday, March 17, 2014 4:55 PM


To: 'The CISSP Study Mailing list'
Subject: Re: [CCCure CISSP] Best effort protocol question

 

Let me throw in my 2 cents worth. I’ve always seen UDP referred to as “connectionless, non-guaranteed delivery” (best-effort, like the 1st class mail. No receipt, no loss or delay notification), while TCP is referred to as Connection-based, guaranteed delivery (certified letter, tracking, delivery receipt, etc.); in other words, lots of additional “resources”. IP, on the other hand, is mostly responsible for routing; i.e. finding the next hop.

 

From Wikipedia: “UDP provides data integrity via a 


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